Grâce à la liberté dans les communications, des groupes d’hommes de même nature pourront se réunir et fonder des communautés. Les nations seront dépassées.
Friedrich Nietzsche (Fragments posthumes XIII-883)

08 - MAI 2/3 - Interviews MC

Interviews des 02 et 03.05.2008


Au Téléjournal
SIC - 02.04.2008
transcrit par Nigel Moore

SIC :  Do you consider the possibility of going back to Portugal still, as arguidos? Or not?
Gerald MC : It's very difficult. (1)


SIC : You were invited to go there... to go back?
GMC : We have been invited back and, errm... I think it's... we're concerned that the date for a possible reconstruction has been published. I don't think having worldwide media attention would help that, errm... and what information... additional information, will be gained from such a process, we... we're not sure about, so that's still under discussion. (2)

SIC : Do you believe that the Portuguese police did everything it could have been done? Or no?
GMC : (ironique) Do you?
SIC : I'm asking.
GMC : I know, well we don't know...
Kate MC : We don't know.
GMC : ...because we haven't been told and that is the most difficult thing for us but, you know, we would reflect the question back. We'd like to know what has been done, we'd like to know who's been eliminated, we'd like to know on what grounds people have been eliminated and we'd like to know which leads are still being followed. (3)

Suite du reportage

KMC : Well, we're very busy, errm... obviously we're desperate to find Madeleine, errm... and we need to keep going and doing everything we can to find Madeleine. Errm... Obviously we have Sean and Amelie and we have to give them the attention that they deserve and they're... I have to say they're very happy and have a very happy, normal life and, you know, I have days where I'm just with Sean and Amelie and we do things that, you know, other children their age would do, errm... and then I have a couple of days when they're in nursery and I'll concentrate really on the campaign and things that we can do to try and get Madeleine, errm...

SIC : And for you, Mr McCann?
GMC : It's been incredibly busy but I think, you know, this has been the hardest year of our life, you know, by miles and errr... but we are driven by a strong belief that there's a really good chance that Madeleine is still out there and I think every parent will recognise that we can't rest until we know everything's been done and that drives us and the love and joy we get from Sean and Amelie keeps us going but we cannot rest until we know what... we find Madeleine, essentially. (4) 
SIC : How is your daily routine?
GMC : Well, most of the time I'm working; pretty much full time now and, errr... and I come home and, errr... help with the kids a bit and get them to sleep and then most nights we work, errr... we're either doing investigation related things or campaign related things and seeing family who've been incredibly supportive for us.
KMC : We certainly go to bed later than we used to now.


SIC : How are the twins? How do you plan to tell the twins, as they grow up, what happened to Madeleine?
KMC : Well, at the minute, I mean, they... they talk about Madeleine all the time and everyday they'll talk about Madeleine or include her when they're playing and, I mean, in some ways that's heartwrenching but in other ways it's really heartwarming 'cause, errm... sorry, despite their young age, I mean, she's such, you know, a big part of their life and, errm... they know she's missing and, you know, they know that we're all looking for her and we did take advice; we spoke to a child psychologist just to check that we were doing the right thing really.

SIC : Do you have some moments when you don't know what you have to say to them?
GMC : Not so much that, I think, you know, what we were told - and we had probably come to that idea ourselves - was that you start with a skeleton outline and as they get older and more intelligent, adapt and ask more questions, you fill in the middle and where we're at just now is that Madeleine's lost or missing and that we're looking for her and they... they understand that concept but we've talked about this today, that if Madeleine had walks... walked into the room tomorrow they would just say: 'Oh, hi, Madeleine, here's your toys, der-der-der' and they would... it's almost like it was yesterday for them that... which is incredible,  a year on.

SIC : They're too young?
GMC : Errr... They are, and...
KMC : What we got advised really was to be honest with them and you can only tell them...
GMC :(cuts in) What you know.
KMC : ... the story; when you know it, and we don't know the story. I mean, because they are so young they're not asking questions. I mean, at the most, they might say... and this hasn't been for a while, that they'd say, you know: 'Mummy, where's Madeleine?' and I'll just say: 'I don't know, sweetheart, but we're all looking' and, you know...
GMC : It's very sweet though as well at times because Sean, in particular, says: 'When we were in Portugal' and 'Madeleine's in Portugal' and... so they... they have got a grasp that, you know, they spent quite a while in Portugal and they last saw Madeleine in Portugal, errm... they don't say, oh, you know, 'Madeleine's lost in Portugal' but it... it is...
KMC : I mean, to be honest...

SIC : Do you still have the hope to tell them of a story in the future?
KMC : Oh, you know...
GMC : Well, until we know and, errr... I know that, you know, the worst...

SIC : What if you wil never know, Mr McCann?
GMC : Well, as the... you know, that's what we're trying to avert, errr... today. We've never... well, we, you know, we hoped we'd never get here. We want to do everything and I think this is our last chance - at this year anniversary - to really appeal to people and, if you don't mind, [holds up A4-size poster] we want to appeal to the Portuguese people and we have set up a new hotline and we've diverted a lot of resource to this and it's to ensure that we can do everything and you can call this number from Portugal, it's the... it's a low cost call and it'll be +44 845 838 4699 and we want anyone who's come forward with information; anyone who hasn't come forward for information, whether that's because they may have been involved in crime or some other activity or scared of media; anything else - please help us because we're desperate and we need to know what's been done and we desperately... we can't go to that situation you're talking about.

SIC : Allow me this question, please: A year has gone by. All the world has believed that Madeleine might be dead; yet you still believe that she's alive; yet you still are... are looking for her.
GMC : Absolutely.

SIC : What keeps your hope?
KMC : I mean, I... first of all I don't know if all the world do believe that she's dead, to be honest, errm...

SIC : There's a strong belief that something...
GMC : We'll... we'll tell you why we believe because we think the centre and the experts who've got the most experience in this situation - missing and abducted children - is in the United States, in the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and their experience is... where they have a hundred and fifteen, what they call kid... stereotypical kidnappings per year; less than half of those children end up being killed and their experience is the younger the child at the time of abduction the less likely they are to have been killed. (5)


(1) Les pourparlers en vue de la reconstitution requise par le parquet sont en cours depuis un moment, mais il semble que les jeux sont faits et que, après maintes tergiversations affectées et autant de faux-fuyants et prétextes filandreux, les TP7 (le groupe sauf les MC) ne veulent pas être plus royalistes que le roi (les MC n'ont pas le choix, mais ils se sont bien gardés de rester neutres et leur répugnance est évidente).
(2) Gerald MC est visiblement très embarrassé. Il ne peut, publiquement, ni dire qu'il irait bien si les autres y allaient, obligeant ainsi moralement les autres à le faire, ni dire qu'il ne veut pas y aller (alors que le parquet a déclaré que l'enquête exigeait, pour avancer, une reconstitution).
(3) Ces exigences sont étonnantes, elles itb car, après tout, les MC savent comme tout le monde que l'enquête est au point mort. C'est même pour cette raison que le parquet a demandé une reconstitution. L'idée est de reprendre tout à zéro et en particulier de revoir la chronologie des événements établie à partir des différents témoignages car les discrépances foisonnent.
(4) On comprend que des parents cherchent leur enfant même si la chance de la retrouve est quasiment nulle. On comprend moins qu'ils ne collaborent pas avec la police qui est quand même la mieux placée pour retrouver l'enfant. On ne comprend pas du tout quels critères peuvent les amener à considérer que "tout a été fait". Car, comme certains journalistes l'ont remarqué, les MC n'ont jamais cherché concrètement, ils se sont assurés de la présence de Madeleine à la une, ce qui, selon la PJ et pas seulement, ne pouvait qu'effrayer le ravisseur, si enlèvement il y avait eu.
(5) Parfaite illustration de l'argument d'autorité.





Pour RTP1
02.05.2008 - Sandra Felgueiras
transcrit par Nigel Moore

Sandra Felgueiras : One year on, do you still believe you will find Madeleine alive?
Kate MC : I believe there's a very good chance that Madeleine is still alive. I think the... the hardest job is actually trying to find her. Errm... there's been many cases of children that have been recovered years down the line, errm... and, although that's not a nice thought, at least they've been recovered and I think it would be totally unfair to Madeleine if we didn't keep looking for her. We need to find her.


SF : But you know, Gerry and Kate, that there is still a lot of mystery concerning the night that Madeleine, errr... disappeared. Errm... Are you willing to share with us what happened that night between 6:30 and 10:00?
Gerald MC : Sandra, we've told everything to the police and it's in the investigative file; our statements are in the file. Our friends have voluntarily taken part in witness interviews in England and they've given all the information. (1)

SF : Why haven't you takenMadeleine with you, errr... if you already admitted that, errr.... during breakfast, she told you, 'Why didn't you come up, errr... the night before' while she and Sean were crying. Why didn't you decided that evening to take them with you?
KMC : Well, the thing is, Sandra, you know, it was a passing remark. I mean it was... you know, Madeleine just said, 'Where were you when Sean and I cried?' And we thought... it was one of those where you think, was that kind of, maybe, when they were getting the bath or... ? You know, 'cause sometimes, sort of, that time of night they're a bit tired; they cry a little bit. Errr... 'cause I thought, well, we were checking so regularly, that I thought if she'd woken up, that obviously means that she'd fallen back in her sleep again, very quickly, errm... you know, and obviously, at that point, you're thinking if someone's woken up, you know, they've just woken up. You never for a million years, and I'm sure everyone can appreciate, you would not, for one minute, think that somebody had tried to take her out of the bedroom, you know, but...
Ce dont s'étonne SF, ici, c'est que les MC, après avoir appris qu'ils avaient pleuré en leur absence, aient choisi de laisser leurs enfants seuls à nouveau. Il est difficile de le croire. Le supposé récit de MMC, le matin, est aussi difficile à croire. A-t-il été vraiment prononcé (ce n'est pas la manière de parler d'une enfant de cet âge et surtout des heures après l'événement), tout du moins à ce moment-là ? Quelle bonne raison auraient eu les MC d'inventer un récit (ou le moment du récit) qui les montre sous un jour assez différent de l'image qu'on se fait de bons parents ?
 Au lieu de répondre directement, KMC s'indigne : qui penserait qu'on va essayer de voler un enfant ? Devrait-on s'indigner si, ayant laissé sa porte ouverte, on découvrait qu'un cambriolage a eu lieuIl est curieux que, dans cette réponse déviée, elle ne mentionne pas Sean.

SF : So you didn't wonder, any time, that you could take... take them with you?
KMC :But, well, I mean, I then said to her... I mean, obviously, then I said to her, you know, 'What do you mean, Madeleine? When was this?' and she dropped it; she started playing with something. So, it was just a passing remark and... and to be fair, hindsight is a wonderful thing, you know... you know, errr... I mean, if what happened hadn't happened then that comment would never have passed through my head again. It was only because of what happened that suddenly you're thinking of everything, you think, 'was that relevant?' and that... that's why I mentioned that to the police, in case it was significant.
La raison d'avoir mentionné l'épisode à la police se doit ici simplement au fait d'avoir voulu tout dire, au cas où. Mais il n'est pas vrai que, si MMC n'avait pas disparu, Kate n'y aurait plus jamais pensé, car le soir même c'est la première chose qu'elle raconte à ses compagnes, parce que, selon Fiona WP, elle est inquiète.
GMC : I think there's two things there, isn't there? That, if we could turn the clock back and hadn't gone to the Tapas that night, we would have done that. We can't change that we didn't take them; we can't change it. And it's very hard for us, we've talked about how guilty we feel that someone saw this as an opportunity. (2)  We can't change it. What we're trying to do is get... find Madeleine and... and use every resource. But the other... the... the answer to your question, why we didn't take them, our children were asleep by 7:30 and that's normal. We were dining at 8:00.


SF : They all... all sleeping at 6:30?
G et K MC : 7:30
SF : 7:30.
GMC : And that's normal for us and Madeleine was exhausted. And there is a big cultural difference, you... you... I'm sure you know it and... in Portugal there are siestas and the children stay up late and they get up later. At home, prior to this happening, Kate and I would regularly go to bed between 10 and 11 o'clock at night and our children would go to bed, 7:00/7:30.


SF : And you say that you regularly was checking her... were checking on the children every 15 minutes. So do you still maintain that, errr... this is the person that you believe has abducted Madeleine. [SF holds up newspaper, with the 'Cooperman' sketch beside the 'Tanner' sketch] Do you still believe that this is the man?
GMC : We... we have never said that that is the man who abducted Madeleine. We said that it's someone, who multiple witnesses... had a description similar to this man. [GM holds up a sheet of paper showing the same two sketches]
KMC : [points to 'Jane Tanner' sketch, on right] We believe this is the man...

SF : The man that Jane Tanner saw?
KMC : Yeah.
GMC : Yeah.
KMC : [points to 'Gail Cooper' sketch, on left] Now, this is the man who has... who has obviously been flagged up by certain people acting strangely and he's not that dissimilar to this man but we don't know. Basically, it'll... we almost wanted to eliminate him.

SF : And how do you think that he could have opportunity to get into the apartment if you were checking on the children every 15 minutes?
GMC : Ehh... Ehh... How often did you say we were checking?
SF : 15 minutes. No?
GMC : That's... that's not what we've said, you know...

SF : No?
GMC : ...and it's been widely reported that it was about 30 minutes. Now, that was what our checks were. Clearly, different people were going at different times and there was a small window of opportunity. There's no doubt about it; it was a small window. I believe it's a high risk strategy and that person almost got caught.

SF : By who?
GMC : By Jane. (3) 

SF : But do you fear to go back? Do you fear the Portuguese justice? I mean, the PJ inquiry.
GMC : We have anx... anxiety about the way the situation has transpired. When we were in Portugal, early on, we would... could never have imagined, errr... that attention would have focused on us. (4)

SF : What is your worst nightmare, when you go to bed?
GMC : I don't have many nightmares, the... real life is bad enough without, errr... dreaming of worse ones but, you know, the worst nightmare was the first few days.


SF : The first few days when you realised she was gone?
GMC : Well, we realised she was gone immediately but the worst nightmare is that she was taken and killed. That's our worst nightmare. I don't think that is the most likely situation, I think it's less likely than her being alive. But we need to find her and we need to find who took her. There is someone who has committed a heinous crime and he has almost led to the destruction of a family.
KMC : Yeah, I think Gerry's touching on it there. It's really important to remember somebody has committed an evil crime. This is a four-year-old little girl who's been taken from her bed, you know, it's an awful crime and that person's still out there; and these people don't do these crimes as a one-off.
GMC : That's why we're here today, Sandra. That's what we should be talking about and what we should have been talking about for most of the last year. Madeleine is missing; she's completely innocent and it's a crime against her and it's had a horrible knock-on effect on us and our family. (5)


(1) Que peut en savoir Gerald MC ?
(2) Ce n'est pas la première fois que Gerald MC dilue leur responsabilité : ils ne sont pas coupables d'avoir laissé les enfants seuls, il sont coupables du fait que, laissant les enfants seuls, quelqu'un y a trouvé l'occasion de faire le mal.
(3) C'est une des déclarations les plus étonnantes de Gerald MC, qui oublie de signaler que 1) il était dans l'appartement au même moment que "that person" et que 2) Il était dans la rue au même moment au même endroit que Jane TB. Gerald MC a donc manqué deux fois l'occasion d'attrapper "that person". Ces remarques devraient être tombées en désuétude après le 13 octobre 2013, puisque DCI Redwood démontra que "that person" était un père innocent revenant de la crèche de nuit. Mais Tannerman, puisque tel est le nom donné par les forumeurs à "that person", a la vie dure, il suffit d'aller sur le site officiel des MC pour s'en convaincre.
(4) Il est probable qu'ils ne l'ont pas imaginée, qu'ils n'ont pas imaginé l'effet, sur les médias, d'une narration où une petite enfant est enlevée de son lit par un malfrat entré par la fenêtre après avoir forcé les persiennes. Certaines histoires ont plus de pouvoir que leur mélodramatisme ne le laisse prévoir.
(5) C'était en 2008. L'indignation était-elle d'actualité ? En 2015, sept ans plus tard, le Met, en mode revue depuis 2011 et en mode investigation depuis 2013, n'a pas avancé d'un chouia, pour ne rien dire des trois équipes d'investigateurs privés lancés, non sur une piste froide, mais sur pas de piste du tout. 







À CNN 
Simon Hooper -  3.02. 2008
L'icône des enfants disparus, un an plus tard
Kate MC : The chances of Madeleine being found are at least as good if not better than in those first few days. We know she's been abducted by a man. Other than that we just don't know anything. There's a whole range of scenarios in which she could still be alive.
Gerald MC : We believe there is a very good chance Madeleine is out there. There is certainly no evidence to suggest otherwise and we are doing our best to find her. At the moment we've got a few pieces of a jigsaw and a huge gap and what we are trying to do is build that information. We are interested in making a world safer for children. This is something that could be implemented and it will save lives.

KMC : Our reaction (to being made arguidos) was disbelief, first of all, and then devastation because suddenly they were looking at us -- and if they were looking at us then who was looking for Madeleine? Who was looking for my little girl? It was devastating.
GMC : Anyone can smear you and anyone can be smeared, but we have never been accused of anything and we are trying to look forward. What we are saying is that Madeleine is out there and we want to find her.

GMC : Every parent can imagine it but they will probably never feel that desperation. Any parent knows that fleeting feeling in a park or in a supermarket: Where's my child? And then there's that terrible realization."
KMC : They (the twins) do lots of role playing with toys in which they still include Madeleine. 
GMC : If she walked through the door, I think they would be like: 'Madeleine's back, let's go to the park! But the concept of saying, let's go out and have a nice meal even a year down the line that doesn't hold any appeal or enjoyment,"we need to know everything and we will never give up."
KMC : You have moments when you are exhausted and you think you can't do this anymore but it's a second, a moment, because you never give up. Who would give up on their own child?




À BBC East Midlands Today 

02.05.2008 - Mike O'Sullivan 
transcrit par Nigel Moore
McCanns blast media coverage
Mike O'Sullivan's voice over: They admitted that they almost didn't come for the interview but Kate and Gerry McCann steeled themselves in what they said was an incredibly tough week for them. The anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance gave them another chance, in a series of media interviews, to highlight the need to keep looking for her.
Kate MC : And we need everybody's help really to find her, errm... and so I'd like to say to people, particularly if they're... they're going abroad, errm... in the summer, just to keep your eyes open and just remember that she's still missing and she needs, and wants, to be found.
Gerry MC : We wouldn't be here this week, doing media, if it wasn't for the fact that we're appealing for information; people to come forward. And that's the key thing, you know, people... everyone involved's got to remember; there's a little girl who's missing, and we're a real family, errr... who've been affected by this and traumatised by it so much.

MO : The couple believe Madeleine's case has become iconic, raising awareness of all missing children but some of the media coverage has angered them.
GMC : It's not right that there should be stuff written everyday when there's not the facts to sustain it. We need to get people focussed on the facts and what is out there and there's been far too much innuendo, speculation, myth, rumour and lie. (1)
MO : And... and the documentary that... that you did this week has shown so... perhaps, a new... a new side of you, especially Kate, quite emotional at, you know... at times. How... how much would... did you want to show that, sort of, emotion earlier?
KMC : You know, Mike, it's not a new side of me. You know, people make judgements, errm... huh... you know...
 
GMC : I think there's two things, isn't there? There's a public persona and then there's your real life. As Brits we're pretty stoical and, you know, that stiff upper lip type thing and the other thing we... for all of our media appearances, particularly early on, we had to really build ourself up to go up and do it, errm... and then we had the added situation of when we did the direct appeal; don't show too much emotion. (2) MO : Six months after Madeleine disappeared, the couple attended a church service in Rothley. Another service is planned for tomorrow; it'll be a year since she went missing.
 KMC : Whatever we do it'll be quite a private day, errm... it's difficult 'cause it's one of those days that you just don't know where you'll feel best really and I don't know if I'll know until the actual day really, errm... and I think everybody appreciates that and certainly the village does. So, we may be at the service but it depends on how we feel.MO : There's a new hotline for people to contact with information. The couple now want to press ahead with their own investigation led by their own detectives and they say they must be allowed the time for their own private lives. 


 (1) Tout a mal commencé médiatiquement, cela est certain. Leurs amis, leur famille, ayant cru leur narration de persiennes et de fenêtre forcées, alors que tout était soigneusement fermé, ont été si choqués qu'ils ont alerté les médias. Une rumeur était née et pour durer. Peut-être auraient-ils pu freiner ce raz de marée en faisant prévaloir une narration conforme à la réalité, mais ils n'en firent rien et J. Paxman savait ce qu'il faisait lorsque, un an plus tard, il rappela à Gerald que qui sème le vent risque de récolter la tempête.
(2) On ne saura jamais qui a dit ça...

 
V. Van Gogh - Le semeur (1888)