Grâce à la liberté dans les communications, des groupes d’hommes de même nature pourront se réunir et fonder des communautés. Les nations seront dépassées.
Friedrich Nietzsche (Fragments posthumes XIII-883)

07 - OCT 22/24 - Antena 3/Arce


Confidential Talk Show
Antena 3 -  22.10.2007
transcrit par Nigel Moore

Les grands-parents de MMC  
Clip 1
Susan Healy : 'Gerry called me. He said, errm… "There's been a disaster, it's a disaster" and I thought there'd been a car accident. 
And it took me a while 'cause he was hysterical, errm… it took me a while to realise. He… he just said "Madeleine's been abducted from her bed". Errm… And, I sort of said "No, Gerry", you know, and he… he was, sort of, at pains to emphasise how important it was because, at this time, I think they'd been looking for some time and they hadn't told us right away. They'd looked for an hour or so. She said, "She's gone, mum, she's gone, mum", and… and I said "We'll get her back". And I was able to say this to Kate for quite a few months, "We'll get her back, we'll get her back". And now I find it is getting harder to say that to her. Errm… I… I believe it. We want her back, we're not going to accept that Maddie's gone from our life altogether. She's far too important for that.'
Brian Healy : 'Just her total presence. Of a morning she'd come in with a book, into our room, and we'd have to read her a story, She was a doll, a little diamond.'


Clip 2 
SH : 'Kate phoned me, errm… about an hour after Gerry and asked me to get in touch with, errm… Paul Seddon, who is the priest, Father Seddon, who married her, who baptised Madeleine, errm… and I didn't have his mobile phone so I rang a friend of Kate's and got… got him and he rang Kate right away and I think as soon as this happened, as soon as Kate realised what had happened, it was as if, errm.. she started to ask God right away to give her Madeleine. Errm… because Kate and Gerry were not the most devout family. We do have Catholic faith, errm… it's… it's the religion that we were brought up in, but I would never describe myself as a devout person. We're just ordinary people, errm… but Kate certainly has… has clung to her religion, errm.. since this happened. Possibly she feels that, you know, it has to be a greater thing that helps us to get Madeleine back. Errm… something with more power than… than we have.'
BH : 'We'll keep searching. I'm appealing to whoever's got her, have a change of heart and send her back to us.' 


Clip 3
SH : 'The police took us to the airport and we… we flew over to Portugal and Kate and Gerry, when we arrived at the apartment, were hysterical. Their voices were out of control and I think it was just blind panic and fear that they couldn't get through to the police or to anybody, errm... to make it clear that they felt Madeleine had been abducted and they were afraid that every minute that was lost was crucial to getting Madeleine back. Errm… my daughter is very, very placid, very even tempered, and I saw her scream that night at the Consul. Screaming for help, for somebody to do something to... to help them to get Madeleine back. But I… I've never heard Kate raise her voice, she doesn't raise her voice, and she was shouting down the phone, I think, to emphasise how important it was, errm... to the British Consul. "I want somebody here now," errm… is what she was saying. But, yes, emotionally she was very up and down, errm… and that isn't, as I say, she's a very placid… '
BH : 'Meeting Kate for the first time after Madeleine was abducted… just awful. Worst feeling of my life.'
SH : 'Kate visualises Madeleine coming down the stairs in the house: "I can see her coming down the stairs, mum".'


Richard Davies - La nouvelle Alice, où s'en aller ? (1978)


The Antena 3 interview
24.10.2007
Transcription (des réponses en anglais) par Nigel Moore


Robert Arce : After six months since the disappearance of Madeleine, how are you feeling? How is your strength?
Kate MC : I feel lonely and, errm... life's obviously not as happy without Madeleine, errm... but, you know, I still have hope... we still have hope, errm...
Gerry MC : Definitely. You know, we're still... she's out there, we believe that. 
KMC : I just feel anxious that she's out there and she's not with us. (1)
 
RA : Vos deux autres enfants, Amelie et Sean, comment vont-ils, parlent-ils de Madeleine ? 
KMC : I mean, they... they do ask about Madeleine and Madeleine was very much a big part of their life, errm... and they ask where she is but they're not upset, they're not distressed but they're obviously very aware that she's not there, especially being home, errm... and I guess it... it's hard for us, as parents, to imagine, errm... the fun they'd be having together, the three of them, if Madeleine was there, errm...
GMC : I think the hardest thing for me is when they... they say things to us like 'When is Madeleine coming back home?' and, you know, we have to say that we don't know but everyone's looking for her.  
KMC : Yeah, we say that, and I... I did say things like 'We're looking for her' and 'We're finding Madeleine' and things, and then... I mean Amelie said the other day, she just said, errm... it wasn't to me actually, it was to my friend, she just said 'Madeleine's coming home to my lovely house and I'm going to share my toys with her'.

RA : Pourquoi, après plusieurs mois, avez-vous résolu de rompre le silence ?
KMC : I mean there's a couple of reasons why we haven't spoken, errm... there's obviously quite a lot that we haven't been able to... to speak about, in the last couple of months, errr... with circumstances, errm... and if I'm honest, I've been a little bit, errm... disheartened, disillusioned with the media coverage and I think now, I mean, you mentioned the six months, and it's... it's a long time to be without Madeleine and we believe she's out there and we just want to appeal again, once more, to the people of Portugal, Spain and North Africa to help us, really, and that's why we've got a new central phone number that people can ring, errm... (2)

RA : Espérez-vous encore que Madeleine est vivante ?
KMC : I do, maybe even more so, I strongly believe that Madeleine is out there, errm... I think she's probably in someone's house, I don't know why, errm... and I... I suppose it's a feeling but I feel, as Madeleine's mummy, I feel in my heart really that she's there and I don't... I don't believe Madeleine has been taken away from us permanently. I don't believe that. Don't feel it.
GMC : I don't know who would harm her.
KMC : I don't think anybody could harm someone as beautiful as Madeleine and I... I don't say beautiful as in her appearance, I mean beautiful as she is a beautiful little person and I don't think anybody would harm her. (3)

RA : Si nous revenons en arrière, à ce jour fatidique du 3 mai, quelle image aviez-vous  de Madeleine ?
KMC : Just a happy little girl. A beautiful, happy little girl.
GMC : Just think of all the times... the nice times that we've had in our house, and her in playing, in the playroom with her... with her... the twins.

RA : Attendez-vous de l'aide de l'Espagne ?
KMC : Definitely. I mean, I think, you know, the public can help so much, I think, if people know something, if they can, errm... just, I guess, search their heart, really. Somebody knows something and they might not realise it, they might just suspect something but every... everybody can make a difference to this. It's not about us, we miss her like crazy, but this is Madeleine, this is a four-year-old girl, we haven't even seen her since she's been four. You know Madeleine's there and she needs our help. She needs to be with her family, you know...
GMC :As parents we're just... we're asking... as parents for people to try and reunite an innocent four-year-old girl with her parents.

RA : Vous êtes considérés comme suspects par la police portugaise, mais vous étiez avec un groupe d'amis. Avez-vous complètement confiance en eux ?
KMC : 100%. 100%.
Voice off : Of everyone?
KMC : Of our friends, yes.
GMC : Absolutely... and... but... you know, the same way that we will be eliminated, they will, as well. No doubt in my mind about that. We are much more optimistic about what Mr Ribeiro, the national director, and Mr Rebelo are saying that all lines of inquiry are open and we know, because of our... we know we are innocent, we know that she was taken. (4)


RA : Que pensez-vous du fait que vous étiez désignés comme suspects alors qu'il n'y a aucune preuve définitive contre vous ?
GMC : We can't really talk in detail about the arguido status but I... the way I understand it is, the arguido status is to give... defend your own rights, so if the police want to ask questions, difficult questions, they have to make you arguido, so, that, in itself, isn't a problem. We've not been charged with anything, the investigation continues and we will be eliminated and the key thing is Madeleine is out there, and everyone...
KMC : And, as traumatic as it's been, it's secondary, it really is secondary. I'll take anything that's thrown at me but number one is getting my daughter back, without doubt.

RA : Vous sentez-vous condamnés par l'opinion publique ou une partie de l'opinion publique et une partie des médias ?
GMC : I think it's hard, errm... if people are reading everyday that someone has done something, or is guilty of something, it's hard to ignore it but, you know, we've always said... always said that, you know, we will wait for the facts and... and to look at what the official statements are saying and that scenario hasn't changed, errm... I don't know how some of the things have been published, errr... and we have asked for responsible reporting, errm... and we still ask for that but the key thing, for us, is finding out where Madeleine is.

RA : 
Many people are wondering here in Spain if parents who have been unjustly accused about the disappearance of their daughter shouldn't have been more open and less cold.
KMC : After being made arguido? You know, we know the truth. I know I'm innocent. Gerry knows he's innocent. We know each other are innocent and that to me, it... it was actually quite calming, 'cause I thought, we're innocent, we're totally innocent and we know that and...
GMC : I think, as well, that you've got to remember, it was, errm... it was over four months since Madeleine disappeared and nothing, nothing that's happened to us in this time...
KMC : That's right.
GMC : ... has come close to upsetting us the way we felt when we discovered Madeleine missing.

RA :La police portugaise a envoyé au Royaume-Uni des prélèvements à analyser. Les résultats de ces tests d'ADN pourraient vous incriminer. Qu'en attendez-vous  ?
KMC : Well, they're not gonna show anything to implicate us, so I'm not... you know, I'm not concerned, if I'm honest.
GMC : We're certainly not scared, you know, if there is anything in the DNA results and we don't know them and we... we cannot know them, and I don't believe anyone in the press knows them either, but there is nothing in those DNA tests, related to Kate and I, that will show anything other than completely innocent. Errm... Whether that is enough to eliminate us, I don't know, but we will be eliminated, I'm confident of that because we have done nothing. (5)

RA : En Espagne, il y a beaucoup de gens qui désirent que Madeleine apparaisse vivante, quel message avez-vous pour ces gens-là ?
KMC : I mean it's 'Please help us'; 'Please help us as a family'; 'Please help us find Madeleine'; 'Please help Madeleine'; 'Please, if you know any information at all, or you suspect anything, no matter how small, please, you know, just... find it in yourself, really, have that courage to make that call to the new number and help us bring Madeleine home'.

RA : Gerry, beaucoup de gens trouvent que l'espoir, la recherche sont des choses privées que les médias ont transformées en choses publiques.
GMC : I... I don't think so, errr... that it is bad. We... you know, she's been missing for almost six months now and the longer that goes on the more, errm... high risk or aggressive the strategy for us is. We have waited and been incredibly patient. Clearly the media attention has never gone away...
KMC : Yeah...
GMC : ...it's never gone away...
KMC : I mean, we haven't spoken for long and, it... you know...
GMC : ...and, errm...
KMC : ...day after day Madeleine's in the paper, or on the front page, and we've said nothing. (6) 

RA : Quel est votre dernier souvenir de Madeleine ?
KMC : It's a little bit like as I mentioned before, she was very happy, errm... and very loving and, you know, I know Madeleine was very happy with her life. She's special. (7) 

RA : You were the last one to see Madeleine because Gerry was playing tennis. Is that right?
KMC : I can't... 
GMC : I saw her... I saw her and, errm... I thought how beautiful she was and how lucky I was to be the father of three children. (8)

RA : La presse a émis l'hypothèse qu'il y aurait eu un accident lié à la sédation des enfants. Avez-vous donné des calmants à vos enfants ?
KMC : You know, I'm not even going to answer that question, I'm afraid...
GMC : I mean, that... it's ludicrous and, you know, these sorts of questions, and the publishing of them, are nonsense and we shouldn't be giving them the time of day. There is absolutely no suggestion, errm... that Madeleine or the children were drugged and it's outrageous.
KMC : All I'm going to say is I'm Madeleine's mummy, I know she was taken from that apartment and she's out there and I want her back. I mean that... that is all, I mean, everything else, I'm sorry, is... is rubbish. (9)

RA : Comment êtes-vous ensemble depuis la disparition de Madeleine, plus solidaires que jamais ?
KMC : What do you think? (short laugh of disdain) We're very close.
GMC : We're completely together in this and we're united in the search for Madeleine... our... our daughter.

RA : Depuis ce jour de la disparition, y a-t-il quelque chose que vous regrettez d'avoir fait, que vous pensez avoir mal fait ?
GMC : Not from the minute we found her gone.
RA : In Spain everyone hopes that Madeleine returns to you alive and well. (10)





(1) La vie n'est pas aussi joyeuse sans Madeleine.
(2) Pourquoi l'Afrique du nord est-elle associé à la Péninsule ibérique ?
(3) Madeleine aurait été empruntée en quelque sorte. Par quelqu'un qui ne peut lui avoir fait du mal, comme si le seul acte de l'avoir enlevée à sa famille n'était pas le mal absolu. On croit rêver. À moins qu'on ne soit dans un conte de fées : la petite fille perdue a été trouvée par de pauvres gens sans contact avec le monde, élevée par eux dans une maisonnette au milieu de nulle part... Dans des interviews postérieures, les MC tiendront à s'affirmer réalistes. 
(4) Comment savent-ils une chose que la PJ, aidée par le LC, n'a pas réussi à découvrir ? Comment peuvent-ils être sûrs et certains que Madeleine n'est pas sortie de l'appartement ? Comment peuvent-ils être sûrs et certains qu'elle n'est pas tombée dans un trou ? Comment peuvent-ils être sûr et certains que tous les trous, tranchées, drains de PDL ont été correctement scrutés et examinés ?
(5) Gerald MC fait ici référence aux prélèvements faits dans la Scenic, louée trois semaines après la disparition. L'hypothèse du transport d'un corps congelé faite par les enquêteurs est non seulement sinistre, mais invraisemblable sinon grotesque. On comprend que les MC ne soient pas inquiets.
(6) On apprendra des années plus tard que les MC (Madeleine's fund) payèrent 500 mille livres pour que Madeleine fasse la une des journaux pendant un an. 
(7) Tous les enfants sont spéciaux pour leurs parents.
(8) Qu'est-ce que Kate MC ne peut pas ? Répondre en raison du secret de l'instruction ? Gerald vient à sa rescousse, pourquoi ne dit-il pas qu'il a vu ses enfants après le tennis ?
(9) Elle veut qu'on lui restitue ce qu'on lui a volé, n'est-ce pas simple ?
(10) Le Correio da Manhã a demandé au criminologue Francisco Moita Flores ce qu'il pensait de cette interview : :
FMF : The whole thing looked like a circus act to me, during which the couple repeated the usual commonplaces, once again escaping the essential. And once again they revealed that they have a lot to tell, but they don't want to...
CM : During this interview to Antena 3, Kate shows herself a lot more emotional that usual. 
FMF : But the curious thing was that even before this interview was made, it was known the lady was going to cry, which then happened. And she even managed to play the part well...  
CM : Do you believe there was image staging during this interview?  
FMF : One should notice that it was known beforehand that the couple would take the opportunity to compliment the Portuguese police, which then happened...  
CM : Gerry looks confident that the DNA tests cannot incriminate them.  
FMF : When he mentioned the tests, it was a silly reply to a docile interviewer. Everybody knows that DNA tests identify people, and they don't lie. But they do not condemn anyone on their own. That was miserable.  
CM : How can the couple's statements be defined?  
FMF : It was an act that nobody believes in. After the kidnapping theory, now they insist on their innocence. An innocent person does not need this...