Grâce à la liberté dans les communications, des groupes d’hommes de même nature pourront se réunir et fonder des communautés. Les nations seront dépassées.
Friedrich Nietzsche (Fragments posthumes XIII-883)

10 - AVR 30 MAI 01 - Interv. MC


Mike Williams - 30.04.2010
Transcription de Nigel Moore


Kate MC : If this was a... a murder inquiry there'd be an active investigation but, as it stands, we have a perpetrator who's still at large and therefore puts other... potentially other children at risk and we have a missing child. So why is there no active investigation? (1)
Gerald MC : Officially, for 18 months, law enforcement are not pro-actively doing anything to find Madeleine and who took her. And I just think that is fundamentally unacceptable. Now, we've been assured that if new information comes in, it will be followed up. In fact, the information that's come to light, during the recent court case, has shown that almost every single piece of information that's gone to Portimao - the police station in the Algarve, where the investigation is based - has been treated in exactly the same manner; which is being declared as 'not relevant'. (2)


KMC : I mean, I think it is a farce.
GMC : There have been, errr... very poor elements of the Portuguese investigation and at the same time it's probably been one of the biggest investigations ever in Portugal. So we aren't, errr... tarring everyone. There have been individuals, who, for whatever reason, have not, errm... seemingly wanted to find Madeleine; that's what it appears to us. So there are people who are clearly making it more difficult and there are others within this country, errm... for whatever motives, want to make it more difficult and, you know, there are many people trying to derail what we are doing along the way.
(3)

KMC : I also think there'll be some people that'll be greatly embarrassed if Madeleine was found and that... that scares me... that scares me that that might affect their want, or not, for Madeleine to be found. (4)

Mike Williams : You've got two other children to raise. What do the twins, errr... know of what happened to their sister?
 
GMC : Their recognition that what's happened is morally very, very wrong and that their sister should be at home with them and needless to say Sean, in particular, talks about having an aeroplane and flying all over the world and looking for that man that's taken Madeleine and when he gets him he's going to rescue her and put... take his sword out.

MW : Kate, you devote your time to the campaign to find your daughter?
 
KMC : My day is very much, kind of, partly investigation; largely campaign now. We've started this holiday pack - which is posters and car stickers. 
MW : So you're hoping that people will take these overseas with them when they travel; put their stickers up and... 
KMC : So it just means the image is out there constantly as a reminder to people that she's still missing. 

MW : What do you hope happened? What's the best scenario that you can find comfort in?  
KMC : You just hope that it's somebody who is looking after Madeleine; that she is now... that she's not at harm and that she's getting love and happiness. You know, that's all I can hope for. 
GMC : And that isn't some sort of dream. At the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, in the United States - with the most experience in child abduction - is that the younger the child, the more likely that they have been taken to be kept. (5)


MW : What's the worst case? 
GMC : I mean, early on we couldn't think of anything else but the worst case, that she'd been taken, abused and killed and dumped - or maybe left seriously injured and dumped out in the freezing cold. 

MW : You believe that she's alive? Not hope for it, do you believe it? 
KMC : You know, in my heart I feel she's out there; I mean, I really do. And that together with the feeling I have of this not being over, you know, that her still being there. The hardest thing, obviously, is how do we find her? (6) 


(1) Le temps s'est chaegé de montrer que ce n'était pas un argument judicieux. Apparemment pas de ravisseur en série.
(2) Les MC semblent d'étonner qu'il n'y ait pas de recherche active de leur fille, mais ils se sont dérobés à la continuation du travail des Portugais, au passage à la phase d'instruction. Par ailleurs, la très réputée agence Control Risks Group, peut-être engagée par Mark Warner, est venue sur les lieux dans les jours qui ont suivi la disparition, enfin l'agence de privés Metodo 3 a été engagée alors que l'enquête portugaise était loin d'être terminée.
Ricardo Paiva, responsable des éléments d'information entrants, n'a pas dit que tous étaient automatiquement classés sans suite. Certains sont investigués, d'autres "montent"  jusqu'au bureau du procureur qui jusqu'à cette date n'a jamais jugé pertinent de donner suite.
(3) Ce discours, tenu publiquement sur une radio à diffusion mondiale et mettant en cause sans les nommer des policiers portugais, s'apparente ou à la clabauderie ou à la paranoïa, car non seulement "on" ne fait rien pour retrouver leur enfant, mais on leur met des bâtons dans les roues, comme si "on" ne voulait pas qu'on la retrouve. 
(4) La spéculation va loin : se sachant discrédité si on retrouvait Madeleine, "on" pourrait souhaiter qu'on ne la retrouve pas.
(5) Que Gerald MC le veuille ou non, c'est à dormir debout, ce que le NCMEC dirait sûrement, c'est qu'un père adoptif en puissance aurait pris un des jumeaux, garçon ou fille au choix, pas une petite fille assez grande pour ne pas se laisser faire.
(6) Rien de tel, quand la réalité n'est pas conforme à son désir, de prendre son désir pour la réalité.
 


La partie de tennis des clowns et la balle imaginaire perdue 



Sandra Felgueiras - 30.04.2010 (diffusion le 01.05)

Kate MC : Well, I remember that night very well. Well, I ran. I said, "Madeleine's gone. Someone's taken her."

Voice over :
Three years later Kate McCann still refuses to go back to Praia da Luz to reconstruct the night when Madeleine disappeared. Lisbon was, therefore, the stage chosen to listen, for the first time in the first person, to the version of the story which intrigued the PJ.
 

Sandra Felgueiras : When you got into the apartment at 10pm and you didnt see Madeleine, errr.. you just ran... shouting that she was missing. Weren't you afraid to leave Sean and Amelie behind? What crossed your mind?
KMC : Well first of all, I didn't just walk in and notice she'd gone. Errm... It was the fact that the door was open to the bedroom quite wide. When I went to close the door, it slammed and that's when I noticed that Madeleine wasn't there (on entend "was there").  And then I thought had she wandered through to our bed, so I went through to our room and she wasn't there and then I went back in again. And ermm... And then I just literally flew round the apartment, once I realised that the window was open and the shutter was up. I flew round the apar... and I just flew. I don't know, I don't... You know, I just ran out, I mean, I knew I could be there in seconds and I just screamed as soon as I saw the table. I screamed. (1)


SF : But now when you look back, you realise it could be, could have been dangerous for Sean and Amelie to let them behind? No?
Gerald MC : I don't think that... I don't think that's right and certainly in medical training, the first thing you get taught in an emergency situation is to call for help. That's part of, that gets drummed into you. (2)

SF : So it was a natural reaction?
GMC : No, err... Its one of the things that should be considered for us but I think most people would react like that.

SF : Did it ever cross your mind, Madeleine wouldn't be able to go out,  just looking for you, alone? (3)
KMC : If I can just explain what I found. The shutters which had been down all week and when I went in and there was a gust that blew the curtains open, that's when I noticed that the shutter had been pulled up. (4)

SF : So you have no doubts, she was taken from the bed?
KMC : No doubts. A three-year old would not be able to do that.
GMC : If you are saying, "Is it theoretically possible that Madeleine left the apartment ?", then yes. "Do we believe it and do we think she was capable of leaving the apartment the way it was found and by which exit did she leave ?", then absolutely not. (5)


(1) SF a manifestement décontenancé sinon frustré Kate MC en l'interrogeant non sur  la "découverte" de la disparition, un must de toute interview avec KMC qui se respecte, mais sur un point qui choqua particulièrement le public portugais. Comment Kate MC avait-elle pu laisser ses deux autres enfants dans la chambre avec la fenêtre ouverte et le ravisseur pouvant revenir, pourquoi n'avait-elle pas crié de la véranda (ne se sentaient-ils pas comme "au fond du jardin" ?) ? 
Mais les narrations de la "découverte" ne se sont jamais réduites à l'essentiel : "entrer et constater que Madeleine n'est plus là", aussi Kate MC rappelle-t-elle à l'ordre la journaliste et, au lieu de répondre à la question, commence-t-elle le récit détaillé et dramatisé de ce qui a précédé la constatation succincte du lit vide (elle n'était pas là) .

(2) SF a de la suite dans les idées, mais Gerald est là pour parer au grain, même si ce qu'il dit ne répond pas à la question car l'entraînement aux situations d'urgence recommande précisément d'alerter de la manière la plus rapide et efficace possible, non de, pour ce faire, mettre en danger la vie d'êtres humains. De l'esplanade couverte où dînaient les TP9, on voyait très mal, en raison de la bâche en PVC, des reflets des lumières et de la végétation, la veranda de l'appartement 5A, mais on entendait, le silence des rues quasiment désertes et sans circulation le permettait.
(3) SF dit "able to cross/close the door" au lieu de "go out", mais le sous-titre est sans ambiguïté, elle a voulu dire "sortir".
(4) Le whoosh manquait au tableau.... Non seulement les persiennes ont été ouvertes, mais les rideaux ont servi de leurre, quoique, dans cette version, elle découvre l'absence de Madeleine avant l'envol des rideaux.
(5) On a envie de répondre : Est-il théoriquement possible que Madeleine ait été enlevée ? Certes oui. Croyons-nous qu'un ravisseur a pu prendre Madeleine sans un cri, laisser son lit dans l'état où on l'a trouvé et sortir par la fenêtre ? Certes non.




Suite de l'interview diffusée dans 30 Minutos - RTP1

KMC : I love water. I love to be by water. 
SF : But you're still not prepared to face a beach holiday still? 
KMC : It's very different. I... I just think that would be quite difficult, you know, just to have that time of almost not thinking for a week. You know, it's kind of impossible.

Archive footage with Sandra Felgueiras voice over, in Portuguese
 
KMC : I often consider the time before Madeleine was taken as my old life; my previous life. 
GMC : We lived in Amsterdam for a year. 
SF : She was born there, wasn't she? 
GMC : No, errr... she was about, errm... 
KMC : Seven months. 
GMC : Seven months, when we... and we lived there for a year and Kate got pregnant with the twins and there were lots of traumatic things in our life happening. 
KMC : Your dad was ill. 
GMC : And my dad was really ill, your mum had had problems, my mum... so there was lots of trips back and forward to the UK. Kate wasn't working that year either, so there was a really, really strong bond with her.

Archive footage with Sandra Felgueiras voice over, in Portuguese
 
KMC : I miss my old life. I miss the life that we had but now, as I say, my focus really is trying to find Madeleine. Errm... And working as a doctor seems quite... quite distant. 
SF : What do exactly do you do during your day concerning the search for Madeleine? 
KMC : I mean there's a lot going on; I think that's quite important to say. I think when things don't appear in the media people worry that everything's gone quiet and assume well maybe, things have stopped and that... that's not the case at all. And obviously the investigation goes on day in, day out. Myself, I can be working on the website; on updating the website. Errr...
 SF : You are the one that writes on the website?  
KMC : I do the writing on the website, yeah.
SF : Everything? 
KMC : Yeah... yeah. Errm... 
GMC : Much more than me now. My blog's gone. (1)

SF : Did you feel any difference back in your work? 
GMC : Going back to work helped and it's interesting because about three or four months ago, when I left to come on holiday, I think I had four or five in-patients and I've seen three of them recently and that was... that was odd because they were in hospital very ill and I'd been looking after them and then I've subsequently seen them back and it's those patients who knew me, like our old life and your new life. It was... I found that quite emotional actually because it kind of takes you back.

Archive footage with Sandra Felgueiras voice over, in Portuguese
 
GMC : You know, immediately before she was taken, and it's terrible because... well, it's not terrible but I feel terrible guilt about it now, that I stood there and I had... I paused a bit longer than what I needed to.

Archive footage with Sandra Felgueiras voice over, in Portuguese
 
SF : Why do you think that Goncalo Amaral told everyone that when they arrived to your apartment the... the sheets were, errr... as normal as nobody was there lying down. 
GMC : It's a pity that Mr Amaral didn't come and inspect the site himself. (2) 
KMC : Only time I saw him was in court in January; that was the first time I'd ever met Mr Amaral.

Archive footage
 
SF : If you could go back would you do exactly the same? 
KMC : It's difficult now because we obviously know a lot more now than we did then. 
GMC : I think I would change very, very, very little. I don't think I'd change any... any of the major decisions that we made. With hindsight, I said this to Kate, and, you know, at the time I wanted to leave Portugal earlier but Kate wasn't ready to leave.

Archive footage with Sandra Felgueiras voice over, in Portuguese
 
GMC : When we moved into... we went up to Dave and Fiona's apartment that night, later on we moved them. You know, they... they hadn't woken up and we were obviously concerned whether some sort of sedative drugs or something had been used. (3)

KMC : At the time, because the lights were on and obviously there was noise... 
SF : So for you it was strange that they didn't wake up?  
GMC : I mean, we were... it was concenring but at the same... 
KMC : I suppose you're not normally in that circumstance. There's not normally a lot of noise.
 SF : I presume that you were shouting, there was a lot of noise inside the apartment. 
GMC : There was a lot of noise but, you know, subsequently... and you look at other times; how does someone not wake up during that? In fact, recently we set off a smoke alarm and they... the kids didn't wake up. (4)
 
Archive footage with Sandra Felgueiras voice over, in Portuguese
 
GMC : Just got to get on with your life. I think where it's... where it's different and as time passes the emotion isn't as raw, so if you go back to May and June, errm... you know, the grief was very obvious... 
KMC : Trauma. 
GMC : ...very palpable, errm... you know, Kate was inconsolable for long periods most evenings, you know, particularly at night time and that... you know, the gaps between those periods, we still have them but they get... they tend to get further away. 
SF : You are getting used to it? 
GMC : Yeah, errr... 
KMC : I think you adapt. Days like today, you know, when the sun's shining and it's bright and it's warm and it's... you know, it makes you feel nice but then you have that kind of... 
SF : Emptiness? 
KMC : ...heavy... yeah, an emptiness. A heavy reminder really, of 'this is very nice but Madeleine's still missing'.

(1) Ce blog a disparu du jour au lendemain du site officiel. Heureusement l'archiviste de l'affaire MC l'avait "sauvé" 
(2) Gonçalo Amara était l'inspecteur coordinateur, il n'était pas tenu d'aller sur la scène du crime, il avait bien d'autres tâches à accomplir eu égard au nombre de forces de police et de gendarmeries engagées dans la recherche de Madeleine, sur terre et sur mer. Mais Kate et Gerald MC eurent maintes occasions de se réunir avec des supérieurs hiérarchiques de Gonçalo Amaral, Luis Neves et Guilhermino Encarnação. 
(3) On ne s'attend pas à ce qu'une médecin avec une formation d'anesthésiste s'exprime et réagisse de la sorte. Les policiers, qui ont observé l'état anormal des jumeaux, n'ont pas osé intervenir puisque leur mère était médecin et ne semblait pas s'inquiéter.

(4) On sait fort bien que les bruits ne sont pas  dérangeant en fonction du nombre de décibels, mutatis mutandis. Un aspirateur peut ne pas déranger un enfant endormi, étant un bruit familier, alors que les cris de sa mère le réveilleront à coup sûr. 




Le couple MC veut rouvrir l'affaire Maddie
Interview à Lisbon -  Expresso (version papier) - 01.05.2010
traduction de Joana Morais

Gerry and Kate McCann guarantee that they have new clues about their daughter's disappearence and that they are going to formally request the reopening of the process. The couple admits that they do not have any concrete evidence that Madeleine McCann, who would have today been seven-years-old, is alive or if she has been kidnapped and they only know that it will be very difficult to get the agreement of the Public Ministry. In an interview with Expresso, given this week at a Lisbon hotel, the parents of the English child who disappeared three years ago in the Algarve, reveal that they still have half a million pounds in the fund and a 3 person team working daily on a search that has proved fruitless.


Madeleine McCann disappeared three years ago and her parents have returned to Portugal to try to reopen the process. They admit that they do not have any evidence that their daughter is alive, but guarantee that they have clues which should be investigated.

Rui Gustavo : Is your life back to normal?
Kate MC : It will never be the same, but we live with a certain normality. Gerry works at the hospital, and I work full time on the campaign to find Madeleine and the twins go to school and swimming. We have children, we owe them a normal life.
 

RG : Have you told them what happened?
KMC : We told them immediately, but as they grow up - they are 5 now - they make other questions. Amelie asked me if Maddie had run away and I had to explain to her that she was stolen.
Gerald MC : Sean speaks all the time about finding Maddie and what he will do to the person who has stolen her. They know they went to sleep and when they woke up their sister was gone. But they still don't understand that someone has taken her. When they gain that conscience, I believe they will want to know where we were. And we will have to explain that we were having dinner at a nearby restaurant.
 
RG : What are you doing at this moment to find your daughter?
GMC : We have an investigative team working for us full time. They've analysed all the information in the process, spoken with people who have entered in contact with us and identified a new line of investigation. It's a small team, of three people, based in England. (1)
 

RG : Have you found anything in concrete? 
GMC : There are lines, leads which weren't investigated thoroughly and information has been released to the authorities. 
RG : To the Judiciary Police? 
GMC : Yes and to the English authorities. We know that one of the leads was followed and eliminated and another was considered irrelevant. We don't agree. (2)

RG : Which leads are those ones? 
GMC : I can't speak about them. 
RG : Eye witnesses? 
KMC : We will not enter in any details so we don't place in danger our findings. 
GMC : I am not saying that we have someone who saw Madeleine. But leads take to other leads and we have to convince the police to investigate them. (3)

RG : Have you made a formal request to reopen the process? 
GMC : Not yet. But we will ask for the reopening of the process. Surely. That was what we came to Portugal to do. 
RG : But with which fundamentation? Do you believe that any prosecutor will agree with your request? 
GMC : Can it be done? It can. Will it be done? I don't know. We will never obtain evidence that Madeleine is here or there. At most we might get leads that will have to be investigated. 
RG : But everything that you've got till now was inconsistent... 
KMC : But if someone says that they have seen her in a blue car somewhere, shouldn't that be investigated? Are we going to dismiss leads without even verifying them? 
GMC : We will ask the police to gather all the case information, we will place it on the same system and analyse each point. The PJ has statements which are not in the process. It is an enormous work that we cannot do, but someone has to do it. (4) 

RG : Why is it so important to prevent the sales of Gonçalo Amaral's book? 
GMC : The book was prejudicing the search for Madeleine. 
RG : Why? 
GMC : Because if people believe that Madeleine is dead and that we have covered up the crime, they will give up on the search. The book is full of omissions and lacks circumstantial evidence. (5) 

RG : It is the conclusion arrived at by the police who investigated the case. Does he not have the right to his opinion and to publish it? 
GMC : When we have a disagreement we turn to the courts. And the law said we were right. Freedom of expression in not more important than our right of being falsely accused. (6)

RG : Gonçalo Amaral is not to blame for the dogs who detected cadaver odour in the house. 
GMC : We were disturbed with the dogs story but the truth is that they are not 100% reliable, they have to be corroborated with forensic evidence, which didn't happen. There wasn't Madeleine's DNA. Even the PJ director admitted that it was hasty to constitute us as arguidos. (7) 

RG : Is there any money left in the fund? 
KMC : Yes. Contributions haven't stopped and we have 500 thousand pounds. 

RG : Do you believe that Maddie is dead? 
KMC : At the beginning yes, I didn't think about anything else. But no one has found any evidence that she was dead and the truth is she might be held by someone. It happened in Austria and in the US. 
GMC : We are not naive and there is a probability that she is dead. However she is a small child and in abduction cases, the younger you are, greater is the possibility of adapting and surviving. 
KMC : It happens. It has already happened. 
RG : Is she still present in your house? 
KMC : Yes. We still keep her room as it was, there are pictures of her all around the house. And we speak about her everyday. 
GMC : And we have to find out what happened in order to move forward. 

RG : Do you dream about her? 
KMC : I've only dreamt about her three times. Very real dreams, where I was holding her in my arms. Strange, isn't it?




(1) Dave Edgar and co, la troisième équipe.
(2) Mystère, mystère... L'une de ces pistes était-elle la Barcelone Connection, divulguée lors d'une conférence de presse savamment orchestrée par le docteur folimage le 6 août 2009, qui se dégonfla comme un ballon ?  
(3) La police n'a pas à être convaincue ! Seul un arguido, lors du processus d'instruction (que les MC ont rejeté), est en droit de demander que l'on enquête sur ceci ou sur cela. L'affaire MC est classée jusqu'à nouvel ordre, cela signifie que les informations entrantes sont examinées soigneusement et font éventuellement l'objet d'une investigation si le Ministère public le juge pertinent. Seul un élément nouveau prometteur est susceptible de faire rouvrir l'enquête elle-même.
(4) Si les MC avaient déposé, à travers leurs avocats, une demande de réouverture du dossier, avec à l'appui des éléments jugés inédits, on l'aurait su, si cette demande avait été rejetée au motif que les éléments étaient insuffisants, on l'aurait su. On doit donc conclure qu'un tel dépôt n'a jamais eu lieu. Pourquoi ce déplacement à Lisbonne ?  Est-ce un "coup médiatique" en raison de l'appel interjeté par Gonçalo Amaral contre l'interdit concernant son livre ?
(5) Il est quelque peu contreproductif de dire cela, si le livre est plein de lacunes et manque d'éléments de preuve, qui a-t-il des chances de convaincre ? Et partant, qui renoncera à chercher Madeleine, à supposer que les gens n'aient pas autre chose à faire ? 
(6) Le tribunal, qui a proscrit le livre et le DVD et enjoint à GA de ne plus parler en public de sa théorie, n'a toutefois pas cherché à démontrer que les conclusions (car GA n'a jamais accusé à proprement parler les MC) de l'enquête coordonnée par GA étaient fausses.
(7) Ce n'est pas la PJ qui décide d'attribuer à quelqu'un le statut d'arguido, c'est l'affaire du parquet.