Grâce à la liberté dans les communications, des groupes d’hommes de même nature pourront se réunir et fonder des communautés. Les nations seront dépassées.
Friedrich Nietzsche (Fragments posthumes XIII-883)

10 - FÉV 25 MAR 09 - Interv. Esp. et Lx

Madeleine McCann Case
Spanish TV 4 - 25.02.2010
Traduit par Mercedes


Concha Garcia Campoy : We have news in the "Maddie" case. The book "Maddie: The Truth of the Lie" that was written by former Police co-ordinator Gonçalo Amaral, will remain prohibited in Portugal as we informed here previously. Earlier this year, it was provisionally withdrawn from the bookstores at the request of the McCanns and now the courts have just ratified the measure. Jerónimo Boloix, how are you, good afternoon. And we have a person who knows much about this case, the author of a blog, Mercedes how are you? Can you interpret what happened as a new victory for the McCanns?
Mercedes : A momentary victory. The fact that someone bans the freedom of speech of the police or any person, is very, very, difficult to maintain in a court, Gonçalo Amaral is prepared to appeal to the European Court, and he will, he is a strong man and this is a struggle they have between them and I think in the end ...
CGC : It seems it is true that the struggle is to reopen the case, is that right Jerónimo? What he wants is to know the truth ... is taking a risk, a risk from the very start...
M. : Yes


Jerónimo Boloix : I think that even though this first ruling is contrary to the interests of Amaral, it may facilitate the reopening of the case, I think Gonçalo should appeal this ruling and contribute to the case. What surprises me greatly is that they are trying to silence the book, and we have just seen a few seconds ago Paulo Sargento's statements.
CGC : Wait a minute, now that you mention this, because it is an exclusive statement of the forensic psychologist, Paulo Sargento, who has been involved in the case from the start, and Alejandro Vazquez has been with him and actually he is absolutely certain. Listen !

Alejandro Vázquez : You've worked on the Madeleine case from the beginning.
Paulo Sargento : From the beginning, from the second day after the disappearance.
AV : And what's your theory?
PS : I think the girl died on May 3, and it would have been utterly impossible for the kidnapping to have taken place. The abduction has been a media construction only, because there is not one supporting fact to support this. (1)
AV : Why the MCs are now saying that there is no evidence that Madeleine is dead?
PS : Because their (the MCs') interpretation is contrary to death, in fact there is evidence: corpse odour, the scent of human blood and there is a set of forensic evidence, evidence that the girl is dead unfortunately. (2)

AV : Can your surmise that with such evidence that there has been a murder, manslaughter... (3)
PS : Yes.
AV : ...the case has been shelved.
PS : I am sure that were it a Portuguese couple, the treatment wouldn't have been the same. The forensic evidence would have been constituted as proof, and probably the couple would be in prison. (4)

AV : How would you define Gerry and Kate's behaviour?    
PS : They have changed the roles, also advised by image consultants, from the beginning Cuddle Cat in her hands, and then we saw that Kate disappeared from scene and Gerry took over the leadership. Gerry is very aggressive. He is very, very aggressive, he is a man who is very impulsive... ahhh, Maddie disappeared, between quotes, and Gerry McCann asked for a priest, if my daughter disappears I would ask for more police ... after that he requested an image consultant, to me it would be better to ask for more police. If somebody presents me the first piece evidence of an abduction, I'll shut up forever, but real evidence and discussed in a logical manner.

AV : How can we understand now that the accused is Gonçalo...?
PS : Gonçalo Amaral represents symbolically, what Gerry and Kate do not want, the death, and their participation in concealing the body. Because he has been the Chief Inspector, has left the police, has published a book that says the same as the process.
AV : Are you confident that at some point the truth will be known, and the process reopened?
PS : I believe in justice; I believe that justice will be done, I don't know when.  
AV : Thank you for everything.
PS : Thank You.


CGC : He speaks clear, categorical, absolutely, eh... Do you think, as he says that if the McCanns were Portuguese they would be in jail? What do you feel Mercedes?
M. : Of course, without a doubt. Parents who recognize that they left three small children alone, under four years of age, to have dinner and they say they were passing by every half hour, which has been shown, that at least the night before this was not true, there is a statement that appears in the process of a neighbour who heard the girl crying for an hour and a half the night before, that for any other couple... (5)
Alfonso Egea : It's not a hypothesis; there have been examples in Portugal. There was one case of a child and the mother was not only suspected but was imprisoned, obviously the nationality of the MCs plays an important role here. Now after hearing Paulo Sargento imagine... (6)
 
CGC : Because he is precise, she is dead. There are no forensic doubts. (7)
AE : I guess the next move for the MCs will be to request this man to shut up too and if this was up to them, everyone should shut up ...
JB : The most shameful of all this is that, as Paulo Sargento said, the book reflects the status of the investigation. The person who spoke is a forensic psychologist who has been involved with the case from the beginning. He said white and in a bottle... (Spanish riddle: white and in a bottle... The obvious answer is: milk). The only thing he didn't say is when these people should go to prison. But let's be realistic here, what is happening, is a political struggle by the British Government against the Portuguese Government, this is preventing further clarification, and unfortunately, we may be in a situation of a judicial lie. There an issue that we must not forget, this little girl disappeared on May 3, three years ago, and no one is looking for her because no one cares for her. There are instructions from the parents, individuals and institutions that support the parents in their bogus search for the girl. (8)

CGC : Well, it's true that, in addition to what yourself and Paulo Sargento have said, it is clear that, when a child is missing and the first thing you do not do is call a priest, the first thing I would do is call the police, here they requested an image consultant, not more police to investigate, now that's... (9)
M. : I can say that the first article was published at 1 minute past 12 on May 4th. ??? We can see in the process that the first call to police from the Ocean Club's reception was at twenty to eleven PM... hum, the timings just don't fit.

AE : You know very well that, that summer, they shared time with a television producer, who was the second person to receive a call, incomprehensible... (10)
M. : Actually...
JB : Equally incomprehensible is that having access to the future British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, they didn't request top British specialists, Scotland Yard, but this image consultant, this is pure and simply an agreement in that the image of the McCanns must appear above suspicion in the matter of their daughter's...

CGC : It surprises me more, Mercedes, and some will think and I believe with good reason, you must be the person that knows more about this case here, because you have collected most of the information... "Until we know the truth". Well, what a commitment, no? You've made a commitment to Gonçalo Amaral and, do you think that we will know the truth if people like you don't throw the towel...?
M. : I think we are all helping each other on the internet, there are currently very few media outlets that are treating this, like today, in a serious way, nobody wants to censure the parents, the aim is to allow the police to do their job, nothing more. You can see very clearly that there was external pressure, no matter from whom; there has been pressure to close a case that was ongoing, something that is unprecedented in an investigation of this nature.

JB : I want to ask Mercedes if you know the reason why this trial that has been held now, against Gonçalo Amaral's book, why haven't they admitted a witness or why haven't the English witnesses appeared?
M. : They were pressured. They claimed they were under official secret. Official secrecy is something that has been invoked on several occasions. There are journalists who have requested information and reply they have received, is that it could not be provided because the case was under the Official Secrets Act.
CGC : If a Prime Minister is related....
JB : But Justice for the girl and ascertaining what happened to her, I think it is paramount...
CGC : Well Mercedes, it has been a pleasure, many thanks. We will contact you again when we review this case that I find so very interesting.
M. : Thank you; thank you very much for addressing this issue seriously and for providing an opportunity for Madeleine. Everyone gives the opportunity to Kate and Gerry McCann.





(1) Si les médias ont construit, ils ne l'ont pas fait sur du néant.
(2) Les MC sont logiques : ils sont sûrs et certains que leur fille a été enlevée. Il n'y a pas de précédent d'enlèvement d'enfant mort. Donc leur fille a été enlevée vivante. Ils ignorent ce qui est arrivé ensuite, mais fondent leur espoir sur l'absence de corps.
(3)  Il est hasardeux de parler d'élément probant, tout au plus existe-t-il quelques présomptions.
(4) S'agissant d'un couple portugais de la classe ouvrière, il est probable que les auditions auraient ressemblé à des interrogatoires et non au simple recueil de déposition que 
connurent les MC. De là, évidemment, l'enquête aurait cheminé d'une autre manière.
(5) Les quatre couples du groupe laissaient seuls leurs enfants endormis, mais ils fermaient les portes à clef. Les MC annoncèrent, le soir du 3 mai, qu'une porte était ouverte pour que Madeleine puisse sortir si elle se réveillait. Qui croira que des médecins, par ailleurs parents aimants, soient capables d'une telle aberration ? 
(6) Dans cette affaire (Joana C), la mère fut soupçonnée de meurtre ou de complicité de meurtre. Rien à voir avec l'affaire MC.
(7) Il n'y a aucune certitude forensique au contraire ! 
(8) Ces propos sont sans fondement.
(9) Il est effectivement étrange d'appeler un prêtre qu'on ne connaît pas et qui ne parle pas votre langue, alors qu'un rite funéraire est intempestif.
(10) Il s'agit de l'ami des MC, Jon Corner, qui a été appelé après la famille quand même, mais a de sa propre initiative répandu sur la Toile des photos de Madeleine à l'intention des médias.


L'extrême-onction est l'un des sept sacrements de l'Église


Les MC à Lisbonne 
09.03.2010 - Sandra Felgueiras (RTP1)

Les MC sont au Portugal pour prendre connaissance des informations rassemblées à Portimão par la PJ après le classement de l'enquête. 


Sandra Felgueiras : Hi Kate. Hi Gerry. Errr... Have you already had access to the new sightings that were released last week?
Gerald MC : We've now got them, errm... but, as I say, Kate and I haven't actually, errr... gone through them ourselves. (1)
SF : You have watched, for sure, the picture, errr... that has been broadcast last week in... by British media, errr... of, errr... apparently, errr... a girl looking like Madeleine, in New Zealand. As parents, did that girl look like Madeleine to you?
Kate MC : You know, she's not dissimilar to Madeleine. I actually thought she maybe looked a little bit young but, as you know, that little girl has been identified now anyway, so we know it's not Madeleine.
SF : Kate, as a mum, have you ever seen any picture, any video, that for you it could be Madeleine?
KMC : No. (laughs) Errm... To be honest we don't get shown a lot of the photographs anyway, errm... I think the police decided that there's... there's so many photographs that get sent to them and, you know, clips of CCTV that it's... (2)

SF : Do you fear that the re-opening of the case, that you wish can re-open the leads, that turn you as formal suspects in the case? Do you think about it?
GMC : Definitely not. It is not the slightest piece of concern for us.

SF : I don't know if you are aware that... that, errr... that in Portugal we have a 12-years, errr... old boy missing. What do you have to say to this parents?
KMC : Don't give up hope, keep going, don't let others try and grind you down, keep going for your child and you must keep going until they're found. And good luck.
GMC : The biggest fear for us is that it puts Madeleine in danger, errr... I think there are many... (3)
KMC : Or makes the chances of... of... of us finding her much more difficult.
SF : When you think about dangers, what kind of things do you think about?
GMC : It's very difficult, isn't it? In terms of, errm... because until you know who's taken her, you've no idea, and there's been many different scenarios, errr... by which children are taken and have been held for very long periods of time, including years, and to the outward world they seem to be living a normal life. I think with a... a young child, in particular, the chances of taking them to, errr... a new environment and they're... and adapting is greater. (4)

SF : You confess that you think that some of these leads should have been better investigated. But last week, errr... the Portuguese Public General Attorney said that all the leads that were recently, errr... reported to the PJ after July 2008, errr... were totally investigated and none... none was sufficiently reliable to reopen the case. Why do you think that the General Public Attorney would say that if, errr... this wasn't true?
GMC : The first thing we have to do is to... to look at the information but, from what we have seen so far, is, the same thing has been written about each individual piece of information and there is no evidence of the... in the information that has been disclosed but, you know, it's not acceptable to parents of a missing child for everything to be discounted. You know, it doesn't matter what the information, it's just discounted, and that is not acceptable and if it's better for us as a family for the file to be open then that... that's what we'll press for. (5)
Dave Edgar: Five or six occasions we have followed really positive lines of inquiry

SF : Do you still believe that it is possible to find Madeleine alive?
DE: Of course, it is. Of course, it is. Errm... No body has been found, errr... and my experience in these cases, errm... if the child's been killed, they dump the body virtually straight away; because obviously these people don't want to be associated with the body. (6)

SF : From all that have been talked, errr... through all this time, there's any that touched you most, that you kept thinking about it, could have been her?
GMC : I mean the things that, errr... are the most obvious are the sightings on the night of a... a child being carried; two separate things in Praia da Luz, errm... but since then I don't think there's been anything, errm... that I've really... there's been one or two I've looked at twice.
SF : Can you tell me which were they?
GMC : Can't remember the specific, errr...
KMC : There was one, wasn't there? Errr... I don't know if that was Amsterdam or Brussels
GMC : Errr... There was one like that.
KMC : And that was what, we had to look at it a few... (7)


(1) Le moins que l'on puisse dire est qu'ils ne semblent guère pressés..
(2) Leurs campagnes ont pour effet unique de susciter une avalanche de signalements fantaisistes, qui leur sont épargnés, cela expliquant ceci.
(3) C'est bien la première fois que Gerald MC exprime un doute ! Quid du "marketing ploy" que constituait le colobome de sa fille ?
(4) Il est possible que cela se produise dans le cas d'un nourrisson volé/adopté, mais il n'y a aucun exemple d'enfant de 3/4 ans se développant normalement après avoir été arraché à une famille aimante.
(5) Aucune information sérieuse n'a été portée à l'attention du Procureur mais Gerald considère qu'il n'est pas acceptable que les informations ne leur parviennent pas, alors qu'ils ont ri lorsque SF leur a demandé si une fois un signalement leur avait fait battre le coeur et ont d'ailleurs remarqué qu'il était rare qu'on les alerte, les signalement étant tous plus loufoques les uns que les autres.
(6) Cela semble logique, surtout que tout le monde sait que l'ADN peut incriminer. Dans ce cas il faut vraiment se débarrasser du corps de telle manière qu'il ne soit jamais retrouvé. Pourquoi ne pas chercher dans cette direction ?
(7) Ils n'ont vraiment pas l'air d'attendre quoi que ce soit des signalements..







Les MC à Lisbonne
09.03.2010 - Sara de Oliveira (SIC)

Sara Antunes de Oliveira : You're talking about, a lot of times, of that new information, new leads, new pictures. Can you tell us something about that? What kind of information?
Gerald MC : Kate and I haven't gone through all the information. Errr... We know that it's predominantly sightings, errm... from many different places around the world, errr... but including sightings from Spain and Portugal.

SAO : And that information still isn't enough for you to ask for the re-opening of the case here in Portugal?
Kate MC : I think we need to go through it all first of all and organise it, really, and then we can get a file... a document together, errm... to present.

SAO : What are you doing to re-open the case?
GMC : Well, the first thing that has been done is that the... the information is only just been passed on to, errr... Dave Edgar, our investigation officer, and he will look at all of the information, the leads, or this... potential sightings and other information and analyse it and see what information he can, errr... take from it, applying the same principles he does to anyone who contacts us directly with information. (1)

SAO : Don't you fear that if the case is re-opened you might be considered suspects again?
KMC : It's never even crossed my mind and I think anybody who went through that file and has a certain amount of logic will know that it's ridiculous. I don't have any fear of that.
 
SAO : This is not the first time, errr... where you say that some leads, that some pictures, that some witnesses were not valued by the Portuguese police and you think they are relevant and important?
KMC : We can't comment too much on what's in this file of information we've just got because we haven't been through it thoroughly. What we do know is that very credible information has been passed on and our investigators have got 30 years plus experience and would only pass on credible information 'cause there's no point otherwise, and we haven't had any feedback from that. So, based on that, I feel more could have been done for those leads, which is still waiting to be acted on, errm... but our investigators obviously can't do that themselves, we need cooperation. Can't comment on what's on... in the file that's just been released. (2)
GMC : I think, you know, I'll go back to your question, we're not sitting here saying the PJ are doing a rubbish job; we're not saying that. Errr... A lot of good work has been done. We know, particularly in the early days, that we got a much more substantial search than many other people who've lost children, errm... and we appreciate that, and we appreciate the hard work. Obviously, we're still in the stage where Madeleine is missing; whoever's taken her is still out there and we need to find Madeleine and the perpetrators need to be caught and as parents it's not good enough for us that information is discounted. The specific point is, really, that you have an officer who's testified in court that he believes that Madeleine is dead, errr... who is primarily responsible for recording that information. I don't think he's objective in his work and that is one of the things that has been very difficult for us. (3)

SAO : Do you want him to be removed from the case?
GMC : Well, you know, obviously that's not for out judgement, errr... but what we need to know is that there is someone objectively looking at the information.

SAO : Do you fear... you won your first court case against Gonçalo Amaral, do you fear that with all the cases, the court cases you have against him, some people might think that it became an obsession for you?
GMC : It's an obsession for us to find Madeleine, that's, errr... certainly true, errm... the court case is very important, I think, because we can understand why a large proportion of the population here would be prepared to believe that Madeleine was dead and I think challenging what has been said and making it be put up to scrutiny and the lack of objectivity of what has been proposed and the lack of evidence. (4)

SAO : Do you understand the people that think that rather strange that you spend a lot of energy and emotional resources in this court cases, errm... against Gonçalo Amaral when your grief and your loss is much bigger than anything else?
KMC : The sad thing about all this court case is, it was uneccessary. It's caused us extra pain and suffering and resources. You know, the last thing we wanted to do was have to be in a court case but Gonçalo Amaral did what he did. We totally believe it's damaged the search for our little girl and we have to do everything in our power to find her, so he has made us take this action because we love our little girl and we want to find her. That's why we've done what we've done. (5)

SAO : Do you consider the posibility of, errm... Madeleine not being alive?
KMC : Well, obviously there's a possibility because we don't know, errm... you know, we're not gonna sit here and lie and be totally naive and say: "She's 100% alive" but we do know there's a very good chance she's alive and while that chance is there we have to keep looking for her. We owe that... we all owe that to Madeleine; she's a little girl, you know, and we know from other cases, you know, there's a chance she's alive, so you have to keep going.



(1) Comme si la PJ ne faisait rien et comme si ils avaient leurs sources propres.
(2) Elle ne peut rien dire par ignorance du dossier, sauf que les informations sont très crédibles, selon "leurs" enquêteurs très expérimentés, et auraient dû être signalées.
(3) C'est comme si, soudain, Gerald MC prenait conscience que des téléspectateurs portugais risquent d'être choqués par tant de dénigrement de leur police. Il faut donc que les prédateurs soient attrapés. Il n'est pas exact qu'un officier de police (en l'occurrence Ricardo Paiva) ait déclaré croire que Madeleine est morte. Ricardo a parlé des conclusions de l'équipe dont il faisait partie.
(4) Que dirait Gerald MC si on lui demandait quels sont les indices d'enlèvement ?
(5) Ce procès n'était pas nécessaire, il leur a causé de la souffrance, il leur a coûté, mais l'initiative revient à Gonçalo Amaral qui a fait ce qu'il a fait... et en particulier il a réduit à néant la recherche des parents alors qu'ils faisaient tout pour trouver leur petite fille. Donc ils ont traduit en justice GA parce qu'ils aiment leur petite fille et veulent la trouver.
Il n'y a personne comme les MC pour dire et faire en sorte que rien ne soit jamais de leur faute. C’est toujours vous le problème, toujours la faute des autres.